'"It's not about punching being used in the ring, it's about defending yourself on the street. Fundamentally, without gloves, without bandage wraps and no rules every boxer from a school boy to a world champion brawls on the street-you can even see that when boxers 'go for it' at a weigh in! No boxer I've ever seen street fighting, fights like they train in a boxing gym and certainly don't fight in the same way that they do in a ring. Something as simple as grabbing a boxer's left wrist will not only muck up his left jab but also his straight right punch-he'll end up swinging his right hand at your face as he tries punching over or through his own left arm!
I've seen lots of boxers street fight, from good amateurs, semi pros, pros and even a world champion and they all brawl, admittedly some a lot better than others. I first start boxing as a school boy and remember talking to my trainer when I was 17. He was a Second World War veteran, about 50 years of age and an ex pro who at the end of his career spent his time taking on all-comers in fair ground booth boxing. I was talking about using boxing in the street. His fatherly advice was 'boxing can be helpful but be careful there are some really good fighters out there that don't box...' It's a flaw of thinking to think that all street brawlers are just idiots. In my experience a lot of 'handy street fighters, were boxers who had adapted their techniques, based on personal experience, for the street. They upped their game and were not adverse to grabbing, grappling, sticking both the nut (head) and boot in and gouging and biting!'
Dennis Jones, long-term bouncer and street fighter
https://outofthiscentury.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/monstery_selfdefenseforgentlemenandladies.jpg?w=604
“I teach the following tricks, not with any idea that they are to be used in friendly encounters with the gloves, but solely for the protection of gentlemen who may, at any time, against their will, be forced into an encounter with a street ruffian.”
From Monstery's 'Self Defense for Gentlemen and Ladies'
Women 'boxing' (and looking like they're having a good scrap!) in Victorian London
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d3/aa/ff/d3aaffcd110495ba4864e1770f5a34b9.jpg
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'A man who has boxed only with the gloves on, and has never had experience of a real fight, can be considered only as an amateur; though he may possibly be a good amateur.
The boxer who may fairly claim to be a professional is one who has practically encountered the dangers and the difficulties of fights with good antagonists.'
Ned Donnelly, 'Self Defence; or the Art of Boxing' (1881)
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'As to boxing, we have guards which are not at all like the guards taught in schools...'
E.W.Barton-Wright
http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4593423/Mendoza-style_cross-armed_guard_medium.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/03/37/1e/03371e84cf5bf7b3f2a9f86b8dfaecf0.jpg
https://defensedanslarue.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/articulated-guards-5.jpg?w=294&h=300
Former undercover narcotics officer and corrections officer, Craig Douglas, showing the 'default position' he developed to reduce damage from surprise or overwhelming attacks.
Former undercover narcotics officer and corrections officer, Craig Douglas, showing the 'default position' he developed to reduce damage from surprise or overwhelming attacks.
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr226/forrest0872/Shivworks%20ECQC%20June%202012/IMG_8671-Copy.jpg
Of course, while this has no historical link to 'Nouveau-Bartitsu', or the arts that comprise it- at least not directly- Barton-Wright himself stated that Bartitsu meant 'self defense in all its forms'.
'Nouveau-Bartitsu' has 3 concerns; history, sport and self-defense.
The ideal and honest aim is to have all 3 of those elements work together as best as possible (in a kind of 'synergy').
I will, therefore, base all of my efforts and developments as I always have; using history, sport and self-defense as the sources that guide and shape this work.
In this case, Craig Douglas is without doubt qualified to provide ideas and insights from the 'self-defense' angle- as has anyone with real experiences of conflict, violence and criminality (like me! ha ha).
The historical texts are all there and anyone can find and study them.
Combat sports are available easily, too- and practical knowledge can come at the cost of sweat, pain and overcoming fear.
Not everyone wants, needs or happens to gain sufficient exposure to real-world threat and assaults needed to gain some 'authority' on that subject, though.
We should all pay attention to and respect all 3 sources...
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'Many a good boxer who suddenly found himself in holds with a wrestler would be at a disadvantage unless he had also a smattering of the science of wrestling, and, therefore, the art of self-defence (to be thorough) should take in not only a knowledge of how to hit, but also how to grapple and throw.'
From the Australian Northern Star in 1910
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http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xr/144846250.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=3&d=77BFBA49EF8789215AB089EE596C658853C3A65473B9476829AA537E4E60AC3476FE867DE2693491E30A760B0D811297
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Sketches of a couple of old (pre-Queensbury) 'boxing' matches
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/The_Fight_between_Hammer_Lane_and_Owen_Swift.jpg
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhv2kkkgTNAdASDMHl5Og_qeH74oLeT3ne-puwfGhuwXhGaZpTwm8vtR5VoCHcT8E90Ts8-dATQtiq3_X3WRIorRNCSmbzb651YUu1B2vbAc0Qswbc3c00gBZJCI4B-e3WoOcbCPccH8YCl/s1600/Bendigo+v+Ben+Caunt+,+1845+world+title+fight+won+by+Bendigo+in+the+93rd+round+,+here+Caunt+raises+him+by+the+neck.jpg
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Two world champions brawl in a puddle!
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/19/article-0-11D106CB000005DC-428_468x321.jpg
Press Conference Brawls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRBfZna8QlA
David Haye might have read this book! LOL
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1848105/thechancery2.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/19/article-2103473-11CF6996000005DC-903_468x336.jpg
Randy Couture- a greco-roman wrestler with boxing experience from his Navy days- might even have written the book!
http://www.cagedinsider.com/wp-content/images/mma/2013/02/mma_couture_gonzaga_580_crop_340x234_display_image.jpg
http://freegifmaker.me/img/res/1/4/7/4/5/4/1474549296181325.gif?1474549318
http://www.mmawiki.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/dirty-boxing.jpg
'John L. Sullivan shaved the sides of his head in preparation for a fight to prevent hair pulling. He worked on takedown defense in training camp because being thrown down counted just as much as a knock down. He used to wrestle with William Muldoon, the great strong man and conditioning expert of his era, to get ready for big fights.'
Collar ties and wrist control seem to fundamental wrestling methods that were used in pre-gloved boxing,
and they are also moves that untrained people will use naturally in a fight.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/89/dc/04/89dc04af6613a5ac18fd851dce782ba3.jpg
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00264/102558921_Haye_264714b.jpg
http://www.isport.com/images/guide/12838010122010062015.jpg
http://jiujitsumag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/A01.jpg
http://survival-mastery.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Street-fighting-810x605.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/13/article-2626830-1DCA3E0B00000578-848_634x742.jpg
Break it up lads, no holding and hitting (especially for world champion boxers!)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1456037.main_image.jpg
If you're wearing clothing (which you most probably will be!), don't be surprised if people grab it, or if you instinctively grab others clothing...
https://media.giphy.com/media/NFrrMtWmCSVG/giphy.gif
That last gif is of two boxing champions scuffling/brawling.
Looks like two 'normal guys' fighting in a bar, right?
We might train to refine our technique and increase our skill level, but it's vital to now WHAT technique to refine, and WHAT skill to increase.
For self-defence we must realise that people naturally fight a certain way, and do so for a reason.
We're best off studying how people actually attack/fight others, and modifying our sport training to allow for that.
Sports have rules exactly to STOP fights descending into messy, chaotic brawls!
I'm not including this next video because it's special, but precisely because it is so typical of the vast majority of fights I've seen or been involved in (as both a bouncer and later homeless).
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=256_1409218965&comments=1
People won't likely touch gloves before they take a swing at you!
If you need to hit someone to defend yourself, you shouldn't give them warning, either.
This next clip is from a video which revolutionised self-defence training in the UK.
The sucker punch literally is the oldest trick in the book, yet it took martial artists a long time to catch on to what street fighters have been doing since the caveman days.
Keep yourself switched on to this most basic (and effective) of tactics, and practice controlling your space and hitting from all kinds of positions that aren't a conventional 'boxing guard'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6OJnZG3joA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FGLhlakkUk
Another aspect you'll see in many fights is that there's not always loads of space to move around in, as we tend to get in a ring or on a mat.
Things and people get in the way- the latter very often on purpose (!) - and can limit our movement, trip us up or even join in.
The floor may be slippery or uneven, and fancy footwork might just land you on your ass- grappling and/or taking kicks to the head...
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Boxing fouls.
They're illegal because they work!
You cannot hit below the belt, hold, trip, kick, headbutt, wrestle, bite, spit on, or push your opponent.
You cannot hit with your head, shoulder, forearm, or elbow.
You cannot hit with an open glove, the inside of the glove, the wrist, the backhand, or the side of the hand.
You cannot punch your opponent's back, or the back of his head or neck (rabbit punch), or on the kidneys (kidney punch).
You can't hold your opponent and hit him at the same time.
When the referee breaks you from a clinch, you have to take a full step back; you cannot immediately hit your opponent--that's called "hitting on the break" and is illegal.
If you score a knockdown of your opponent, you must go to the farthest neutral corner while the referee makes the count.
If you "floor" your opponent, you cannot hit him when he's on the canvas.
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Of course, where circumstances and ability permit, 'pure' boxing skills can work very nicely indeed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2qPMFijyks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4NqooT4wk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HL9CvINKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZMKGJKzekA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzS5uinEpyU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkXtYxHfENw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T3X8hESLuA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTqtuiM4h0c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srhO2Ug9t8M
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